FAQ?

[Fromper]

I'm new around here and looking for an FAQ.

I was actually introduced to industrial music around 8-9 years ago when
I lived in Chicago and listened to Zoltar's Industrial Zone show on
Q101. At the time, I didn't have much money to buy cd's, so I only
picked up a few. Since then, I haven't followed the music scene much in
general, in any type of music, just picking up a few cd's here and
there.

Lately, I got in the mood to get back into this "type" of music, but
I'm not even sure what this type of music is any more. So on to the
stupid newbie questions:

What's EBM? I've seen this term used a lot, but I have no clue what it
means.

Since when are the terms "goth" and "industrial" being blended together
to describe a genre? I saw this in a couple of times and it just made
me go "Huh?".

Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?

Thanks for any info!

-Fromper

[Locke]

Please let me quote Fromper...
|I'm new around here and looking for an FAQ.

The latest known version of the RMI FAQ is hosted in the industrial.org
archives. Don't know how up-to-date is is but I guess it's now a
document of past times when there was much more traffic in this
newsgroup.

|Lately, I got in the mood to get back into this "type" of music, but
|I'm not even sure what this type of music is any more.

This problem is symptomatic and hard to resolve. Ask five people about
industrial and you will get at least six different answers what it
actually is.

|What's EBM? I've seen this term used a lot, but I have no clue what it
|means.

Electronic Body Music, electronic music of the darker variety with a
heavy and mostly rather monotonic rhythm (i.e. dance rhythm) and using
lots of samples.

|Since when are the terms "goth" and "industrial" being blended together
|to describe a genre? I saw this in a couple of times and it just made
|me go "Huh?".

In this connection, industrial is a pretty loose genre definition
anyway, so crossover phenomena come naturally. Both goth and industrial
genres deal quite often with the darker sides of life and society,
therefore they go well together, especially in a club context.

|Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
|rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
|energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
|Any recommendations for bands I should check out?

Sounds like you would be enjoying either aggro (the hard electronic
dance style with heavy guitars) or industrial rock (basically rock with
an experimental and noisy edge). I don't like the former, so I can't
recommend anything, but for industrial rock you should check out Foetus,
Nine Inch Nails, the Young Gods, Swans and Sielwolf.

CU,
Locke

NP: Einstüzende Neubauten "Supporter Album #1"

[Fromper]

Post by Locke
Please let me quote Fromper...

Kindly allow me to quote Locke right back...

Post by Locke
The latest known version of the RMI FAQ is hosted in the

industrial.org

Post by Locke
archives. Don't know how up-to-date is is but I guess it's now a
document of past times when there was much more traffic in this
newsgroup.

Ah, thanks for the info. I'll check that out. :)

Post by Locke
|Lately, I got in the mood to get back into this "type" of music, but
|I'm not even sure what this type of music is any more.
This problem is symptomatic and hard to resolve. Ask five people about
industrial and you will get at least six different answers what it
actually is.

Heh. Some things never change. :)

Post by Locke
|What's EBM? I've seen this term used a lot, but I have no clue what it
|means.
Electronic Body Music, electronic music of the darker variety with a
heavy and mostly rather monotonic rhythm (i.e. dance rhythm) and using
lots of samples.

Back in the day, we used to call this "techno". Is there a difference?
Just the fact that it's darker ("goth"?) in tone?

Post by Locke
|Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
|rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
|energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
|Any recommendations for bands I should check out?
Sounds like you would be enjoying either aggro (the hard electronic
dance style with heavy guitars) or industrial rock (basically rock with
an experimental and noisy edge). I don't like the former, so I can't
recommend anything, but for industrial rock you should check out Foetus,
Nine Inch Nails, the Young Gods, Swans and Sielwolf.

Well, obviously, I already know about NIN. Actually, I've never been a
huge fan of Trent Reznor. He did a few of songs I liked (Head like a
Hole, Down in it, Supernaut as a part of 1000 Homo DJ's, etc), but a
lot of his work doesn't really appeal to me. Thanks for the other
recommendations. I'll look into those.

--Fromper

[Locke]

Please let me quote Fromper...
|> Electronic Body Music, electronic music of the darker variety with a
|> heavy and mostly rather monotonic rhythm (i.e. dance rhythm) and using
|> lots of samples.
|
|Back in the day, we used to call this "techno". Is there a difference?
|Just the fact that it's darker ("goth"?) in tone?

Well, that's one point. Another one is that EBM relies more on vocals
and lyrics, even though there's a lot of instrumental EBM as well. If
there's no singer then there is at least some kind of message in the
vocal samples whereas techno has rarely any lyrics (some people would
argue never at all), the "message" of techno being just the dance club
lifestyle.

Another thing is that EBM is far older than techno, dating back to the
early eighties whereas techno is an early nineties phenomenon. In
parts, techno evolved from EBM (some early techno figureheads started
off in EBM bands), other sources for techno being house music, acid
house, disco and '80s dance music.

Techno hit the mainstream dance culture pretty quick whereas EBM stayed
in its ghetto of goth/industrial clubs.

It is important to note that I consider EBM only loosely related to
industrial as a genre. I don't feel like going into detail but I think
the FAQ explains it all pretty well.

CU,
Locke

NP: The Legendary Pink Dots "Nemesis Online"

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by Locke
Well, that's one point. Another one is that EBM relies more
on vocals and lyrics, even though there's a lot of
instrumental EBM as well. If there's no singer then there
is at least some kind of message in the vocal samples
whereas techno has rarely any lyrics (some people would
argue never at all), the "message" of techno being just the
dance club lifestyle.

Bzzt. Early techno dealt with the post-industrial landscape
of Detroit during an economic crash, it was the sound of urban
decay in the very early 1980s. Of the three guys from Detroit
generally thought to have "been there" to kick it off, all of
them featured lyrics and language to convey a message.

Post by Locke
Another thing is that EBM is far older than techno, dating
back to the early eighties whereas techno is an early
nineties phenomenon. In parts, techno evolved from EBM
(some early techno figureheads started off in EBM bands),
other sources for techno being house music, acid house,
disco and '80s dance music.

Bzzt bzzt. Techno dates as early as 1981, acid house came far
later. If anything, many techno folks moved over to EBM - see
The Final Cut as a big example of that. You're thinking of
new beat, I think.

Post by Locke
Techno hit the mainstream dance culture pretty quick
whereas EBM stayed in its ghetto of goth/industrial clubs.

You should read this sometime:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0823084280/qid=
1114937057/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/103-3012145-4781458?
v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[tetraplan]

On Sun, 01 May 2005 08:44:39 GMT, Veni Vidi Exii

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
Bzzt bzzt. Techno dates as early as 1981, acid house came far
later. If anything, many techno folks moved over to EBM - see
The Final Cut as a big example of that. You're thinking of
new beat, I think.

This may be true in the US, but techno arrived in Europe as late as
1988, in the wake of the acid-house explosion. Many people in the EBM,
industrial and synth-pop scenes turned first to acid-house and later
to techno.
This is when Psychic TV did their Jack The Tab thing (and Towards Thee
Infinite Beat), Coil came up with LSD and Cabaret Voltaire went all
house-y with Groovy, Laidback And Nasty.

[Todd Clayton]

Post by tetraplan
This may be true in the US, but techno arrived in Europe as late as
1988, in the wake of the acid-house explosion. Many people in the EBM,
industrial and synth-pop scenes turned first to acid-house and later
to techno.
This is when Psychic TV did their Jack The Tab thing (and Towards Thee
Infinite Beat), Coil came up with LSD and Cabaret Voltaire went all
house-y with Groovy, Laidback And Nasty.

Remember that music is a global phenomenon.

Techno came before EBM.
--
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Todd Clayton aka DJ Todd | Real Synthetic Audio |
| http://www.synthetic.org | Electro-Industrial-Synthpop |
| irc.habber.net #rmipeople | radio for the net-generation. |
| ***@synthetic.org | Unlicensed, Unregulated, and |
| ICQ: 56785153 | Unconventional. |
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
"I do not have to forgive my enemies. I have had them all shot."
-- Ramon Maria Narvaez, Spanish general

[tetraplan]

Post by Todd Clayton

Post by tetraplan
This may be true in the US, but techno arrived in Europe as late as
1988, in the wake of the acid-house explosion. Many people in the EBM,
industrial and synth-pop scenes turned first to acid-house and later
to techno.
This is when Psychic TV did their Jack The Tab thing (and Towards Thee
Infinite Beat), Coil came up with LSD and Cabaret Voltaire went all
house-y with Groovy, Laidback And Nasty.

Remember that music is a global phenomenon.

Of course.

Post by Todd Clayton
Techno came before EBM.

Both started ~1981.
Which makes me wonder how well Clear did when it was released. I
remember hearing the Soul Sonic Force and other Arthur baker stuff,
but Cybotron? Don't remember. Then again, in '81 I was, like, 11.
In an interview, Carl Craig suggested A Number Of Names was really
obscure outside Detroit.

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by tetraplan
Both started ~1981.
Which makes me wonder how well Clear did when it was
released.

How well Clear did is irrelevant, but Alleys Of Your Mind
sold something like 30,000 copies.

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by tetraplan
Both started ~1981.
Which makes me wonder how well Clear did when it was
released.

I just double checked. 10,000 copies of Alleys Of Your Mind,
15,000 of Cosmic Cars. Those were singles with very little
distribution and promotion.

[Soterro]

Post by tetraplan

Post by Todd Clayton
Techno came before EBM.

Both started ~1981.

Wasn't at that time used the term tekkno for the branch which later got
the name EBM?

S

[Locke]

Please let me quote Todd Clayton...
|tetraplan wrote:
|> This may be true in the US, but techno arrived in Europe as late as
|> 1988, in the wake of the acid-house explosion. Many people in the EBM,
|> industrial and synth-pop scenes turned first to acid-house and later
|> to techno.
|> This is when Psychic TV did their Jack The Tab thing (and Towards Thee
|> Infinite Beat), Coil came up with LSD and Cabaret Voltaire went all
|> house-y with Groovy, Laidback And Nasty.
|
|Remember that music is a global phenomenon.

No, it is not. Music is a cultural phenomenon, and culture is still
highly localized. The fact that a small amount of mainstream music gets
global distribution cannot change the fact that the vast majority of
music is only distributed (and therefore known) on small local markets.

Let my regrettable uninformed opinion on techno and its development be
an example for this simple fact.

|Techno came before EBM.

That's debatable. I haven't read the book that Veni Vidi Exii
recommended (and to be honest I don't intend to since my interest for
the history of techno is only a passing one), but the sources that I
could come up with date the beginnings of techno to 1985 (Cybotron
"Techno City" and Model 500 "No UFOs"). Everything that came before I'd
consider a precursor that did not yet constitute a genre of its own. If
you don't agree then come up with a better argument.

EBM started as early as 1981/82 (DAF, Liaisons Dangereuses, Front 242,
early Krupps), precursors dating back to the late seventies. It is true
however that the genre name EBM wasn't used until a few years later
(apparently Front 242 did so in 1984, that a year befor the name techno
was coined). Not to mention that DAF had several major hit singles in
Europe between 1981 and 1983 when the early precursors to Detroit techno
were surely just a local club phenomenon.

So at best we can agree that techno and EBM developed simultaneously (in
different cultural surroundings) and started to crossover when they got
a wider distribution, in both directions apparently.

CU,
Locke

NP: Foyer des Arts "Von Babylon nach Bullerbü"

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by Locke
That's debatable. I haven't read the book that Veni Vidi
Exii recommended (and to be honest I don't intend to since
my interest for the history of techno is only a passing
one), but the sources that I could come up with date the
beginnings of techno to 1985 (Cybotron "Techno City" and
Model 500 "No UFOs"). Everything that came before I'd
consider a precursor that did not yet constitute a genre of
its own. If you don't agree then come up with a better
argument.

You not agreeing is not an invalidation of an argument. Since
you admit to being uninformed about techno, stop speaking
authoritatively about it.

For the record, "previous to 1985" was Clear, which hit 52 on
the Billboard urban charts (at the time the Top Black Singles
Charts). In 1983. Techno City is thought of as being a vast
change from why Cybotron got big in the first place.

Subjective reality is not reality.

Post by Locke
Not to mention that DAF had several major hit
singles in Europe between 1981 and 1983 when the early
precursors to Detroit techno were surely just a local club
phenomenon.

Ah yes, pop radio, the true indicator of musical innovation.

[Locke]

Please let me quote Veni Vidi Exii...
|You not agreeing is not an invalidation of an argument.

At least it's saying that the argument wasn't good enough to convince me

| Since
|you admit to being uninformed about techno, stop speaking
|authoritatively about it.

I've corrected my views in accordance with facts I've found on the net
and double checked with other sources. These sources (Wikipedia and a
German music encyclopedia) were pretty convincing.

|For the record, "previous to 1985" was Clear, which hit 52 on
|the Billboard urban charts (at the time the Top Black Singles
|Charts). In 1983. Techno City is thought of as being a vast
|change from why Cybotron got big in the first place.

Okay, that's another opinion, but it doesn't change anything about the
final conclusion I came to in my post <4273920b$***@x-privat.org>.
Which means that my point still stands even though the details may be
sketchy.

|Subjective reality is not reality.

They wouldn't call it reality if it wasn't one, would they?
Genre questions often have a subjective factor to them.

|Ah yes, pop radio, the true indicator of musical innovation.

It's not a matter if pop music was an indicator for innovation, it's an
indicator how well known to the mainstream a certain style is. It was
referring to Todd's claim that music was a global phenomenon, something
about the probability that someone has even heard of a certain musical
innovation and nothing else.

CU,
Locke

NP: The The "Infected"

[Lech]

Post by Locke
NP: The The "Infected"

Excellent choice! Mensch, I miss Matt Johnson... the new NIN albums does
remind me of "NakedSelf", though.

Yrs, &c. Lech

np: the The, "NakedSelf"

[candle]

when Lech buried him beneath the willow, the angels sang a whiskey

Post by Lech

Post by Locke
NP: The The "Infected"

Excellent choice! Mensch, I miss Matt Johnson... the new NIN

albums does

Post by Lech
remind me of "NakedSelf", though.

I love the the as well. Nice to see their work being
remastered/reissued (even if I preferred the opriginal album covers).
It was a bit weird to hear one of their songs used in a Dockers
commercial though...

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by Locke
Please let me quote Veni Vidi Exii...
|You not agreeing is not an invalidation of an argument.
At least it's saying that the argument wasn't good enough
to convince me

Science isn't enough to convince Christians on evolution, that
doesn't make it wrong.

Post by Locke
Which means that my point
still stands even though the details may be sketchy.

I propose Locke's Law: In the absence of evidence, Locke is
correct.

Post by Locke
They wouldn't call it reality if it wasn't one, would they?

Sort of like logical fallacies. I mean, they call them
logical.

Post by Locke
It's not a matter if pop music was an indicator for
innovation, it's an indicator how well known to the
mainstream a certain style is. It was referring to Todd's
claim that music was a global phenomenon, something about
the probability that someone has even heard of a certain
musical innovation and nothing else.

How well known in the "mainstream" it was has very little to
do with "what came first." Which is the subject of this
thread. And th real answer is: They were concurrent, despite
your objections.

[Locke]

Please let me quote Veni Vidi Exii...
| [Detroit techno vs. EBM]
| And th real answer is: They were concurrent, despite
|your objections.

I did already say that three days ago but obviously you won't agree with
me on ANYTHING. You'd rather make false claims of what I said.
Pathetic.

CU,
Locke

NP: Autechre "Amber"

[Syl]

Post by Veni Vidi Exii

Post by Locke
It's not a matter if pop music was an indicator for
innovation, it's an indicator how well known to the
mainstream a certain style is. It was referring to Todd's
claim that music was a global phenomenon, something about
the probability that someone has even heard of a certain
musical innovation and nothing else.

How well known in the "mainstream" it was has very little to
do with "what came first." Which is the subject of this
thread. And th real answer is: They were concurrent, despite
your objections.

I quote the words from the previous message which perfectly
answer your remark and make it useless:

"It was referring to Todd's
claim that music was a global phenomenon, something about
the probability that someone has even heard of a certain
musical innovation and nothing else."

Nothing about "who came first", it was not the matter there.

A phenomenon starts sometimes somewhere,
if only there is "a" phenomenon, and aware of its existence
for example. It doesn't automatically reach the whole world,
or after some time. And the Media and mainstream
are means to this end, pieces of evidence, they are those who spread it
"globally", and sometimes it's even the Media and Mainstream
which qualify, name a posteriori and artificially a "movement", a
"phenomenon".


Syl
.fr

[Girl <last name>]

Post by tetraplan
On Sun, 01 May 2005 08:44:39 GMT, Veni Vidi Exii

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
Bzzt bzzt. Techno dates as early as 1981, acid house came far
later. If anything, many techno folks moved over to EBM - see
The Final Cut as a big example of that. You're thinking of
new beat, I think.

This may be true in the US, but techno arrived in Europe as late as
1988, in the wake of the acid-house explosion. Many people in the EBM,
industrial and synth-pop scenes turned first to acid-house and later
to techno.

The Europe vs. US argument is valid because of how the terms were used
differently. EBM, via New Beat (basically EBM played slower), were a massive
influence on UK rave music, called techno by many, but not really on the
origins of the original techno, electro or garage sounds of the US. However,
there's a strong argument to say EBM and the US styles developed
independently originally. They do share many of the same influences -
Kraftwerk, the original industrial sounds, Suicide (listen to DAF's less EBM
stuff), and definitely cross-polinated a lot - Nitzer Ebb were played a lot
in early US dance clubs.

Post by tetraplan
This is when Psychic TV did their Jack The Tab thing (and Towards Thee
Infinite Beat), Coil came up with LSD and Cabaret Voltaire went all
house-y with Groovy, Laidback And Nasty.

The PTV stuff basically set the foundations for the UK's acid house style
(not the earlier US acid house) - the origins of Jack the Tab were in their
earlier hyperdelic stuff and the psychedelic influences on the UK sound were
hugely PTV influenced. The Grid, for example, grew out of PTV - both Dave
Ball and Richard Norris were involved in the Jack the Tab/Tekno Acid Beats
material.

Girl.

[Veni Vidi Exii]

However, there's a strong argument to say EBM and the US
styles developed independently originally. They do share
many of the same influences - Kraftwerk, the original
industrial sounds, Suicide (listen to DAF's less EBM
stuff), and definitely cross-polinated a lot - Nitzer Ebb
were played a lot in early US dance clubs.

Independantly and concurrently, for the most part. Detroit was
listening to more Chicago house than Krautrock though.
Regardless, the two styles didn't have a lot to do with each
other until EBM started cribbing from techno and acid house in
the late 80s.

Acid house is a term almost exclusively used to describe the
British style, though, by the way. It has to do with the
particular acid squealch noise and, tangentially, the
psychedelic aspects ... Detroit techno was more about the
harshness, rigidity in contrast to soul. Taking more cues from
Human League, et al, on that.

[Girl <last name>]

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
Acid house is a term almost exclusively used to describe the
British style, though, by the way. It has to do with the
particular acid squealch noise and, tangentially, the
psychedelic aspects ...

I had my head ate off on discogs for implying that! There is a form of US
acid called acid house from the mid 80s, which is where Genesis P-Orridge
got the name. He saw the word acid when in the States, thought it was about
drugs (but it wasn't, it was, as you said, the sound), so brought it back to
the UK and released the Superman single with his idea of acid house - lots
of psychedelic sounds and the Tim Leary sample.

Girl.

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by Girl <last name>
I had my head ate off on discogs for implying that! There
is a form of US acid called acid house from the mid 80s,
which is where Genesis P-Orridge got the name. He saw the
word acid when in the States, thought it was about drugs
(but it wasn't, it was, as you said, the sound), so brought
it back to the UK and released the Superman single with his
idea of acid house - lots of psychedelic sounds and the Tim
Leary sample.

You seem to think discogs is a place for intelligent musical
discussion. I, personally, avoid any place where people
vehemently believe that jungle and drum and bass are two
completely separate things.

Anyway, I don't really have any input here. You're more or
less right, although the use of the word wasn't in a critical
sense - he probably just picked it off of a flyer or
something. Sort of like the ubiquity of new -step and -core
genres that don't really exist.

Good job. I think, for the first time since you appeared on
RMI, I haven't wanted to flame you. My crotchety bastard
sense isn't being triggered. Take that how you will.

[Girl <last name>]

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
You seem to think discogs is a place for intelligent musical
discussion.

Christ no, I'm boycotting the forums. However, the acid house thing was
before I realised how bad it was.

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
I, personally, avoid any place where people
vehemently believe that jungle and drum and bass are two
completely separate things.

Heh, I hear you. How hard is the concept of "Jungle had negative
connotations for black music, so they changed it" to understand?

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
Anyway, I don't really have any input here. You're more or
less right, although the use of the word wasn't in a critical
sense - he probably just picked it off of a flyer or
something. Sort of like the ubiquity of new -step and -core
genres that don't really exist.

The story I've heard is that he was in Chicago and hear about this new acid
scene (kicked off with Phuture's "Acid Tracks" -
http://www.discogs.com/release/1949 in '87) and went to check it out. At the
time, he was in his full-on Merry Pranksters phase (driving around the US in
the "Even Furthur" bus) and was disappointed with the lack of LSD in
evidence, so he created his own version when he got back to the UK. D Mob's
"We call it acieed" came out around the same time as the Superman single and
is much more like the US sound. On the question of the rave scene in
general, though, Gen's influence is clearer - in '88 they started having
gigs in warehouses with a sound system playing their version acid house and
they'd advertised gigs in the with flyers featuring cuttings of old 60s
Record Mirror articles about raving (an old term for parties) as early as
1984 (according to the liner notes for "Origin of the Species Vol. 1").

Post by Veni Vidi Exii
Good job. I think, for the first time since you appeared on
RMI, I haven't wanted to flame you. My crotchety bastard
sense isn't being triggered. Take that how you will.

:-)

Girl.

[JD]

Post by Fromper
I'm new around here and looking for an FAQ.
I was actually introduced to industrial music around 8-9 years ago when
I lived in Chicago and listened to Zoltar's Industrial Zone show on
Q101. At the time, I didn't have much money to buy cd's, so I only
picked up a few. Since then, I haven't followed the music scene much in
general, in any type of music, just picking up a few cd's here and
there.
Lately, I got in the mood to get back into this "type" of music, but
I'm not even sure what this type of music is any more. So on to the
What's EBM? I've seen this term used a lot, but I have no clue what it
means.
Since when are the terms "goth" and "industrial" being blended together
to describe a genre? I saw this in a couple of times and it just made
me go "Huh?".
Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?
Thanks for any info!
-Fromper

Ever tried Rammstein? They sing in German mostly but they might fit the
bill as harder rocking industrial.

Or KMFDM's latest cd? WWIII

If you got no place to hear short tracks from cds you could try
http://www.bestbuy.com/

I never paid much attention to the "labels" since like you said,
"goth-industrial", WTF?

[Out Out]

Post by JD

Post by Fromper
I'm new around here and looking for an FAQ.
I was actually introduced to industrial music around 8-9 years ago when
I lived in Chicago and listened to Zoltar's Industrial Zone show on
Q101. At the time, I didn't have much money to buy cd's, so I only
picked up a few. Since then, I haven't followed the music scene much in
general, in any type of music, just picking up a few cd's here and
there.
Lately, I got in the mood to get back into this "type" of music, but
I'm not even sure what this type of music is any more. So on to the
What's EBM? I've seen this term used a lot, but I have no clue what it
means.
Since when are the terms "goth" and "industrial" being blended together
to describe a genre? I saw this in a couple of times and it just made
me go "Huh?".
Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?
Thanks for any info!
-Fromper

Ever tried Rammstein? They sing in German mostly but they might fit the
bill as harder rocking industrial.
Or KMFDM's latest cd? WWIII
If you got no place to hear short tracks from cds you could try
http://www.bestbuy.com/
I never paid much attention to the "labels" since like you said,
"goth-industrial", WTF?
--
JD..

(with apologies... Shameless Self-Promotion:)
Out Out are industrial-rock... :)

[Girl <last name>]

Post by JD
I never paid much attention to the "labels" since like you said,
"goth-industrial", WTF?

There was a wave of bands around '98 who mixed Goth and industrial, early
The Machine in the Garden spring to mind.

Girl.

[Fromper]

Umm... thanks for the info, everyone. Sorry to have started a flame war
simply by being uninformed. Looks like no one else around here is that
much more informed than I am. :)

(Smiley face included as an aid for the sarcasm impaired)

--Fromper

[Todd Clayton]

Post by Fromper
Umm... thanks for the info, everyone. Sorry to have started a flame war
simply by being uninformed. Looks like no one else around here is that
much more informed than I am. :)
(Smiley face included as an aid for the sarcasm impaired)

Hey, like we need an excuse for a flame war. :)
--
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
| Todd Clayton aka DJ Todd | Real Synthetic Audio |
| http://www.synthetic.org | Electro-Industrial-Synthpop |
| irc.habber.net #rmipeople | radio for the net-generation. |
| ***@synthetic.org | Unlicensed, Unregulated, and |
| ICQ: 56785153 | Unconventional. |
+---------------------------------+--------------------------------+
"I do not have to forgive my enemies. I have had them all shot."
-- Ramon Maria Narvaez, Spanish general

[Veni Vidi Exii]

Post by Todd Clayton
Hey, like we need an excuse for a flame war. :)

I needed something to do while you all weren't talking on IRC
last night.

[Delameko Stone]

Post by Fromper
Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?

for the metal influenced side of things I'd recommend the following (all
currently active):
Acumen Nation
Chemlab
KMFDM
Flesh Field - Strain
Sulphur
Jesu

Someone else mentions The Swans and The Young Gods. Swans split way back,
but their catalogue is pretty solid, the further back you go the darker and
it gets. Young Gods are more ambient techno these days, I'd recommend Only
Heaven to try out their guitar-oriented stuff (despite the fact they don't
use any guitars).


For more beat-driven stuff I'd recommend trying:
CombiChrist - Everybody Hates You
The Retrosic - God Of Hell
Aesthetic Perfection - Close To Human


Also you should probably try VNV Nation/Covenant/Apoptygma Berzerk to see if
the whole futurepop (or whatever its called now) thing is of any interest to
you.

--
Delameko Stone

[Fromper]

Post by Delameko Stone

Post by Fromper
Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?

for the metal influenced side of things I'd recommend the following (all
Acumen Nation
Chemlab
KMFDM
Flesh Field - Strain
Sulphur
Jesu

Heh. Nice timing. I just mail ordered an album by the first band on
your list. :) Believe it or not, of all the bands in the world, the one
I've seen in concert more often than any other is Acumen Nation. I saw
them perform live 3 times when I lived in Chicago (their home town),
which makes them the only band I've ever seen more than twice. I really
need to get out more. :P I already have their first three albums, and
now that I'm getting back into music more, I noticed that they've
released a couple more, so I ordered The Fifth Column online.

Of course I know KMFDM, too, although the only album I have of theirs
is Retro. For some reason, I like the first half of that album
significantly more than the second half. I'll have to consider trying
out some of the albums that the songs I like came from. I've also heard
one newer song by them, which I think is from the album Attak, and I
liked that one.

I've heard of Chemlab, and I probably heard some of their tunes on the
radio in Chicago, but I don't remember their music specifically. I
haven't heard of the other three bands you mentioned.

Post by Delameko Stone
Someone else mentions The Swans and The Young Gods. Swans split way back,
but their catalogue is pretty solid, the further back you go the darker and
it gets. Young Gods are more ambient techno these days, I'd

recommend Only

Post by Delameko Stone
Heaven to try out their guitar-oriented stuff (despite the fact they don't
use any guitars).

When buying cd's, I only care if the music is good, not if the band is
still together. I was only listening to industrial for a couple of
years, during a time when I didn't have the cash to buy a lot of cd's,
so I'm still catching up on stuff by some of the bands that I do know.
For instance, along with mail ordering the Acumen Nation album, I also
ordered "The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste" by Ministry. It may be
old, but I don't have it yet.

Post by Delameko Stone
CombiChrist - Everybody Hates You
The Retrosic - God Of Hell
Aesthetic Perfection - Close To Human
Also you should probably try VNV Nation/Covenant/Apoptygma Berzerk to see if
the whole futurepop (or whatever its called now) thing is of any interest to
you.

Heh. Once again, you recommended bands that I was already looking into.
A friend of mine is a big APB fan. I have to ask, though, does everyone
call them APB for short, or is it just that my friend doesn't know how
to pronounce Apoptygma Berzerk? ;) Their stuff is pretty good, but a
little soft for my style. As an old school Metallica fan with an open
mind, I actually like their cover of "Fade to Black", which I'm sure
most die hard Metallica fans probably despise. But then, the Metallica
fans who are that closed minded would probably never have heard it.

I actually heard VNV Nation for the first time over the weekend at a
Hot Topic store. They may be an overpriced mall shop, but they've got
some sampler cd's really cheap. I bought "Metropolis 2004" and "Psycho
Tina's Hell House of Horror" for $5.99 each. That "Psycho Tina" thing
has a cheesy name, but some decent tracks. They've also got some
headphones there so you can listen to some of the albums on display,
including one lp by VNV Nation. They're playing live in Ft. Lauderdale
on Friday, so I'm considering going to that show, even though their
music is a little softer than I usually like. As I said before, I need
to get out more, so this seems like a decent opportunity.

Thanks for all your recommendations!

--Fromper

[Bryce]

Post by Fromper
I actually heard VNV Nation for the first time over the weekend at a
Hot Topic store. They may be an overpriced mall shop, but they've got
some sampler cd's really cheap. I bought "Metropolis 2004" and "Psycho
Tina's Hell House of Horror" for $5.99 each. That "Psycho Tina" thing
has a cheesy name, but some decent tracks. They've also got some
headphones there so you can listen to some of the albums on display,
including one lp by VNV Nation. They're playing live in Ft. Lauderdale
on Friday, so I'm considering going to that show, even though their
music is a little softer than I usually like. As I said before, I need
to get out more, so this seems like a decent opportunity.

If you are going to VNV Nation, you might enjoy one of the opening
bands, Imperative Reaction. (hope I spelled that correctly).

--
now with more cowbell

[Girl <last name>]

Post by Fromper
Coming from a heavy metal background, I've always liked the harder
rocking side of industrial, although I do like some of the higher
energy tracks that good dance tunes, even if they don't rock as hard.
Any recommendations for bands I should check out?

If you can get your hands on it, have a listen to "Terror - An Industrial
Metal Compilation" (http://www.discogs.com/release/317682), basically a
who's who of the original wave of industrial metal (or aggro-industrial)
sound.

Girl.

[18hz]

Post by Fromper
I'm new around here and looking for an FAQ.

How quaint, it's all on wikis now you know..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_music

Oh go on then..
http://www.relst8.net/rmifaq.htm
& http://18hz.deid.net/rec-music-industrial-faq.htm

Also
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=77:141

np: Prostate Orgasm - The Bloody Severed Windpipe of Joss Stone
--
Iain x http://18hz.com

narcissism * hedonism * ironic detachment