Discussion:
Industrial Rock vs. Industrial Metal
(too old to reply)
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-13 15:05:42 UTC
Permalink
Greetings to all...

I'm new in this group, and I'll start my stay here by asking this:

Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"Industrial Rock" and "Industrial Metal"? Yes, I know that Rock is
different from Metal, but I'm looking for something more specific.

I'm considering the following to be "Industrial Rock":
Killing Joke, Laibach, early Swans, Chrome's rock-oriented material or
even P.I.L's "Metal Box".

Industrial Metal:
Ministry, Godflesh, Fear Factory, Rammstein and Celldweller.
jackthetab
2008-02-14 05:57:27 UTC
Permalink
I am not an expert on this myself, but I would correlate the same bands in
each of the listed categories you mentioned. However, Laibach may not be the
best example of "industrial rock".

*note - I am not arguing what is good, what is bad, what is really
industrial.

Some other possible contributions of industrial rock - Circle Of Dust, Young
Gods, Murder Inc, NIN...

industrial metal - Bile, Pitchshifter, Foetus, Genitorturers, Rob Zombie...

The question of a real difference is quite subjective. On one hand you are
asking for some sort of viable definition of what "rock" is and what "metal"
is. The industrial part is the constant, but a little easier to define.

You will be hard pressed to find agreement on what is defined as industrial
rock and industrial metal by a group of people.
--
kunst und wahnsinn,
jackthetab

#####\ _ /#####
#( )# | _( )__ | #( )#
##### | /_woof/ | #####
#" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "#
# O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O #
#m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m#
#####/ ######/ \###### \#####
/_______________________________________\
http://jackthetab.deviantart.com/
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Greetings to all...
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"Industrial Rock" and "Industrial Metal"? Yes, I know that Rock is
different from Metal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
Killing Joke, Laibach, early Swans, Chrome's rock-oriented material or
even P.I.L's "Metal Box".
Ministry, Godflesh, Fear Factory, Rammstein and Celldweller.
Locke
2008-02-14 20:20:54 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 21:57:27 -0800, "jackthetab" <***@UND.WAHNSINN>
wrote:
|I am not an expert on this myself, but I would correlate the same bands in
|each of the listed categories you mentioned. However, Laibach may not be the
|best example of "industrial rock".

Depends on the album. "Jesus Christ Superstars" would certainly qualify,
the rest would not, save for a couple of individual tracks perhaps.

|*note - I am not arguing what is good, what is bad, what is really
|industrial.
|
|Some other possible contributions of industrial rock - Circle Of Dust, Young
|Gods, Murder Inc, NIN...
|
|industrial metal - Bile, Pitchshifter, Foetus, Genitorturers, Rob Zombie...

Ahem ... disputing that Laibach play industrial rock and then enlisting
Foetus as industrial metal is just silly.

|The question of a real difference is quite subjective. On one hand you are
|asking for some sort of viable definition of what "rock" is and what "metal"
|is. The industrial part is the constant, but a little easier to define.

Well, metal is pretty well defined as a musical genre, much better than,
say, industrial. I'd say that metal is a sub-genre of rock and that's
where the difficulties start. How much metal elements does an industrial
related song need to make it industrial metal? A fair amount for sure,
the rest is up to you to decide.

|You will be hard pressed to find agreement on what is defined as industrial
|rock and industrial metal by a group of people.

Of course, this is a general rule for all musical genres.

CU,
Locke

NP: Mark Stewart & Maffia "Learnig to Cope with Cowardice"
--
_ __ ___ _ __ ___ \\|||//
| | / \ / _/| |/ /| _| / @ @ \
| |__| || || |_ | \ | _| (| \ |)
|____|\__/ \__\|_|\_\|___| \__=__/
| |
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-20 17:04:54 UTC
Permalink
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
mimus
2008-02-20 18:40:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
I'd play, but neither subgenre treated here interests me in the slightest.

Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
--
Let there be throbbing.
Girl <last name>
2008-02-22 00:38:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
I'd play, but neither subgenre treated here interests me in the slightest.
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.

Girl.
mimus
2008-02-22 01:05:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.
Toss up some likely titles . . . .

What's the best you've heard?

And why aren't you "sure" it "quite" fits? are there guitars? does it
throb or not?

ANSWER ME

<starts sobbing>
--
Let there be throbbing.
Girl <last name>
2008-02-28 01:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.
Toss up some likely titles . . . .
Black Strobe - "Deceive/Play", Fixmer - the whole album with Doug "Nitzer
Ebb" McCarthy as Fixmer/McCarthy, Carretta - "Lovely Toy", Vitalic -
"Candy".
Post by mimus
What's the best you've heard?
The above. A good sampler is "This Is... Techno Body Music Vol. 1"
http://www.discogs.com/release/533127
Post by mimus
And why aren't you "sure" it "quite" fits?
I'm not sure what polyrhythmic means!
Post by mimus
are there guitars?
Black Strobe, yes - they're a very cooky bunch (think Young Gods more than
Nitzer Ebb and you're getting closer). The others, no, they're more techno
influenced EBM than rock influenced.
Post by mimus
does it throb or not?
Mais oui!
Post by mimus
ANSWER ME
OK, if you insist.
Post by mimus
<starts sobbing>
Big baby.

Girl.
mimus
2008-02-28 02:18:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.
Toss up some likely titles . . . .
Black Strobe - "Deceive/Play", Fixmer - the whole album with Doug "Nitzer
Ebb" McCarthy as Fixmer/McCarthy, Carretta - "Lovely Toy", Vitalic -
"Candy".
Post by mimus
What's the best you've heard?
The above. A good sampler is "This Is... Techno Body Music Vol. 1"
http://www.discogs.com/release/533127
Post by mimus
And why aren't you "sure" it "quite" fits?
I'm not sure what polyrhythmic means!
<mildly>

Lots of rhythmic voices, preferably contrapuntal.

Think Electro Assassin/_The Divine Invasion_/ "Bodyhammer", "Voyager",
"Dreamweb" and "Beyond Salvation" (26:35)

Stuff flickering all over the place.
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
are there guitars?
Black Strobe, yes - they're a very cooky bunch (think Young Gods more
than Nitzer Ebb and you're getting closer). The others, no, they're more
techno influenced EBM than rock influenced.
Post by mimus
does it throb or not?
Mais oui!
Urgh. French electro-EBM. Have we come to this?

I'm thinking.
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
ANSWER ME
OK, if you insist.
Post by mimus
<starts sobbing>
Big baby.
Girl.
It's been hard the last ten years or so.
--
Let there be throbbing.
Girl <last name>
2008-02-29 00:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.
Toss up some likely titles . . . .
Black Strobe - "Deceive/Play", Fixmer - the whole album with Doug "Nitzer
Ebb" McCarthy as Fixmer/McCarthy, Carretta - "Lovely Toy", Vitalic -
"Candy".
Post by mimus
What's the best you've heard?
The above. A good sampler is "This Is... Techno Body Music Vol. 1"
http://www.discogs.com/release/533127
Post by mimus
And why aren't you "sure" it "quite" fits?
I'm not sure what polyrhythmic means!
<mildly>
Lots of rhythmic voices, preferably contrapuntal.
Think Electro Assassin/_The Divine Invasion_/ "Bodyhammer", "Voyager",
"Dreamweb" and "Beyond Salvation" (26:35)
Stuff flickering all over the place.
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
are there guitars?
Black Strobe, yes - they're a very cooky bunch (think Young Gods more
than Nitzer Ebb and you're getting closer). The others, no, they're more
techno influenced EBM than rock influenced.
Post by mimus
does it throb or not?
Mais oui!
Urgh. French electro-EBM. Have we come to this?
I'm thinking.
Black Strobe, c'est beaucoup plus que electro-EBM. They've done a Bo Diddley
cover, FFS!!! Their album is a tribute to Norwegian black metal. It's all
very strange and very good.
Check out their samples:
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=24259476

Girl.
mimus
2008-02-29 02:13:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
Not sure if it quite fits your description, but there's some very
interesting stuff coming from France - Terence Fixmer, David Carretta,
Vitalic and Black Strobe.
Toss up some likely titles . . . .
Black Strobe - "Deceive/Play", Fixmer - the whole album with Doug "Nitzer
Ebb" McCarthy as Fixmer/McCarthy, Carretta - "Lovely Toy", Vitalic -
"Candy".
Post by mimus
What's the best you've heard?
The above. A good sampler is "This Is... Techno Body Music Vol. 1"
http://www.discogs.com/release/533127
Post by mimus
And why aren't you "sure" it "quite" fits?
I'm not sure what polyrhythmic means!
<mildly>
Lots of rhythmic voices, preferably contrapuntal.
Think Electro Assassin/_The Divine Invasion_/ "Bodyhammer", "Voyager",
"Dreamweb" and "Beyond Salvation" (26:35)
Stuff flickering all over the place.
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
are there guitars?
Black Strobe, yes - they're a very cooky bunch (think Young Gods more
than Nitzer Ebb and you're getting closer). The others, no, they're more
techno influenced EBM than rock influenced.
Post by mimus
does it throb or not?
Mais oui!
Urgh. French electro-EBM. Have we come to this?
I'm thinking.
Black Strobe, c'est beaucoup plus que electro-EBM. They've done a Bo Diddley
cover, FFS!!! Their album is a tribute to Norwegian black metal. It's all
very strange and very good.
. . . :

I'M THINKING.
Post by Girl <last name>
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=24259476
Sorry, the cats keep chewing my audio wires in half and I haven't replaced
'em since last time half went out (since then, t'other one's gone too).

Duct-tape needed, I think.
--
Let there be la palpitation?
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-23 14:51:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
I'd play, but neither subgenre treated here interests me in the slightest.
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
--
Let there be throbbing.
And 90% of today's EBM is pure crap!

Anything made 10 years ago by Orbital, Aphex Twin or the FSOL still
sounds better (and more avantgarde!) than "contemporary" EBM.
mimus
2008-02-23 16:24:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by mimus
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
I'd play, but neither subgenre treated here interests me in the slightest.
Anyone heard any new good polished complex driving and polyrhythmic
electro-EBM lately?
--
Let there be throbbing.
And 90% of today's EBM is pure crap!
Anything made 10 years ago by Orbital, Aphex Twin or the FSOL still
sounds better (and more avantgarde!) than "contemporary" EBM.
Hm, well, the most recent and strongest example that has made it into my
favorite blocks list is

Covenant/ Skyshaper (Metropolis)(2006)/ "Spindrift", "20 Hz", "Sweet and
Salty", "Greater than the Sun" and "The World Is Growing Loud" (28:28)

Android Lust/ Best of (Block)/"Heathen (A Thousand Thoughts)"[1];
"Stained"[2]; "Sense of It All"[4]; "Spine"[1]; "Refuse"[1]; "The Want
(Existence/Nonexistence)"[3]; and "Fall to Fragments"[2] (33:50)
[1] _Resolution_ (Tinman)(1997)
[2] _The Dividing_ (Synthellec/Projekt)(2002)
[3] _Stripped and Stitched_ (Synthellec/Projekt)(2004)(remixes)
[4] _Devour, Rise and Take Flight_ (Synthellec/Projekt)(2006)

is a wondrous best-of block.

And

Assemblage 23/ Meta (2007)(Metropolis)/ "Truth", "Raw", "Madman's Dream",
"Ghosts" and "Crush" (27:56)

Assemblage 23/ Storm (2004)(Metropolis)/ "Ground", "Let the Wind Erase
Me", "Skin" and "Infinite" (21:54)

are more than listenable, although soft (ironically, his music is softer
than Shikhee's by far, Shikhee being the goddess behind Android Lust).
--
Let there be throbbing.
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-23 14:46:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
Actually, I've listening to Industrial Music since 1992...

It's always interesting when someone starts assuming stuff about
people of whom they don't know... 9 times out of 10 they get owned!
mimus
2008-02-23 16:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
Actually, I've listening to Industrial Music since 1992...
It's always interesting when someone starts assuming stuff about
people of whom they don't know... 9 times out of 10 they get owned!
He meant to encounter a living rmi.

This is the undead rmi.
--
Let there be throbbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-24 21:43:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Actually, I've listening to Industrial Music since 1992...
That's nice.
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
It's always interesting when someone starts assuming stuff about
people of whom they don't know... 9 times out of 10 they get owned!
No, you fucking moron. I meant that this group has been dead for about
7 years now. I wasn't assuming anything about you, although you've made
it such that I don't need to assume that you're a dope.
mimus
2008-02-24 22:42:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Actually, I've listening to Industrial Music since 1992...
That's nice.
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
It's always interesting when someone starts assuming stuff about
people of whom they don't know... 9 times out of 10 they get owned!
No, you fucking moron. I meant that this group has been dead for about
7 years now. I wasn't assuming anything about you, although you've made
it such that I don't need to assume that you're a dope.
Cool, a fLame.

<sniff>
--
Let there be throbbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-25 19:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Cool, a fLame.
<sniff>
We needed some vigor here.
mimus
2008-02-25 19:47:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by mimus
Cool, a fLame.
<sniff>
We needed some vigor here.
We need months of assembly-work and a good lightning-storm here . . . .
--
Let there be thrOOHAHHbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-26 17:03:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
We need months of assembly-work and a good lightning-storm here . . . .
What we really need is Eschaton to come back and start up some
political discussion that would end with him describing how he
masturbated w/ ketchup or something.
mimus
2008-02-26 19:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
We need months of assembly-work and a good lightning-storm here . . . .
What we really need is Eschaton to come back and start up some political
discussion that would end with him describing how he masturbated w/
ketchup or something.
Let's start with the basics, reviews and so on, and leave the luxuries for
later.

Ah, the Hell with it.

Let the condiments be abused!
--
Let there be throbbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-27 18:13:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Let's start with the basics, reviews and so on, and leave the luxuries for
later.
In all honesty, I haven't come across anything "new" that I've actually
liked. That being said, I haven't bothered *really* looking for a while
now (because that which I do find I don't really like). It seemed like
the whole genre (and all of the subgenres that I liked, at least) collectively
ran out of steam and got uberboring 7-8 years ago.

I did like the new Puppy album though, although it took a couple of listens.
Their show was one of the best shows I've seen in a long time, too.
Post by mimus
Let the condiments be abused!
Indeed.
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-28 16:12:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Actually, I've listening toIndustrialMusic since 1992...
That's nice.
It's always interesting when someone starts assuming stuff about
people of whom they don't know... 9 times out of 10 they get owned!
No, you fucking moron.  I meant that this group has been dead for about
7 years now.  I wasn't assuming anything about you, although you've made
it such that I don't need to assume that you're a dope.
Sadly, you're about 7 years too late.
What the fuck is that? Can't give a straight answer? Too lazy?
Girl <last name>
2008-02-29 01:04:24 UTC
Permalink
No, you fucking moron. I meant that this group has been dead for about
7 years now. I wasn't assuming anything about you, although you've made
it such that I don't need to assume that you're a dope.
It's RMI, bitch, bend over and take your medicine.

Girl.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-29 21:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
What the fuck is that? Can't give a straight answer? Too lazy?
As someone who has been around these parts for about as long as you
claim to have been a musician - I can tell you, there are better venues
to ask these kinds of questions. There really are only a few folks who
post anything anymore and they're generally not the types who seem to
be interested in "industrial metal".

j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-25 19:06:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"Industrial Rock" and "Industrial Metal"? Yes, I know that Rock is
different from Metal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that there's
never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference" given that
"rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if you really want
to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a very well defined term.

I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he takes
the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I have a pretty
liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than many of the used-to-be
regulars here!).

The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part of the
music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I otherwise call this
"metal" or "rock"?"
Slipface
2008-02-27 02:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"Industrial Rock" and "Industrial Metal"? Yes, I know that Rock is
different from Metal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that there's
never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference" given that
"rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if you really want
to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he takes
the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I have a pretty
liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than many of the used-to-be
regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part of the
music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I otherwise call this
"metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus for
me).

That said, I'd lump "industrial metal" and "industrial rock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of "industrial
with guitars."

_dr.o'k (longtime lurker)
mimus
2008-02-27 04:55:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference
between "Industrial Rock" and "Industrial Metal"? Yes, I know that
Rock is different from Metal, but I'm looking for something more
specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that
there's never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference"
given that "rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if you
really want to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a very well
defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he takes
the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I have a
pretty liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than many of the
used-to-be regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part of
the music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I otherwise
call this "metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus for
me).
That said, I'd lump "industrial metal" and "industrial rock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at one
time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of "industrial with
guitars."
_dr.o'k (longtime lurker)
OK, I've wondered about this for more than ten years:

What was stuff like Starfish Pool about?

A beat every two or three minutes connected by dark ambient or what?

I was intrigued by the descriptions in the old DU catalogs but never quite
intrigued enough (I'm also cheep).
--
Let there be throbbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-27 18:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slipface
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus for
me).
I've not quite hit that level, but I'm a lot less antagonistic about
genre labeling these days - for much the same reason. Plus, I'm older
and less antagonistic in general. (although still very antagonistic!)
Post by Slipface
That said, I'd lump "industrial metal" and "industrial rock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of "industrial
with guitars."
Agreed.
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-28 15:59:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know thatRockis
different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that there's
never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference" given that
"rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms.  Hell, if you really want
to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't  a very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he takes
the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I have a pretty
liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than many of the used-to-be
regulars here!).  
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part of the
music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I otherwise call this
"metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus for
me).
That said, I'd lump "industrialmetal" and "industrialrock" into
Coldwave.  I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of "industrial
with guitars."
_dr.o'k (longtime lurker)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nothing against you pal, but "Coldwave", as used in the US of A, is a
stupid & meaningless label. Why?

"Coldwave" first came to be in UK, in the late 1970s, describing a
certain type of post-punk music relying heavily on synthesizers and a
cold, dettached mood (Industrial Music was once lumped under that
umbrella term). Then the French appropiated it; to them, it means
anything from Depeche Mode to the Sisters of Mercy.

15 years later some moron stole the word to create a fictitious
American industrial subgenre, supposedly separate from what Ministry
and Nine Inch Nails where doing circa 1992. Now, really: what's the
big fucking difference, style-wise, between Chemlab and Ministry? It's
just a marketing ploy, people, that's all.

Let me repeat: I hold nothing against you, its just that the
"Coldwave" term is an abomination.
S_and_S
2008-02-29 01:34:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know thatRockis
different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that there's
never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference" given that
"rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if you really want
to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he takes
the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I have a pretty
liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than many of the used-to-be
regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part of the
music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I otherwise call this
"metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus for
me).
That said, I'd lump "industrialmetal" and "industrialrock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of "industrial
with guitars."
_dr.o'k (longtime lurker)- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Nothing against you pal, but "Coldwave", as used in the US of A, is a
stupid & meaningless label. Why?
"Coldwave" first came to be in UK, in the late 1970s, describing a
certain type of post-punk music relying heavily on synthesizers and a
cold, dettached mood (Industrial Music was once lumped under that
umbrella term). Then the French appropiated it; to them, it means
anything from Depeche Mode to the Sisters of Mercy.
15 years later some moron stole the word to create a fictitious
American industrial subgenre, supposedly separate from what Ministry
and Nine Inch Nails where doing circa 1992. Now, really: what's the
big fucking difference, style-wise, between Chemlab and Ministry? It's
just a marketing ploy, people, that's all.
Let me repeat: I hold nothing against you, its just that the
"Coldwave" term is an abomination.
seems like it's getting to the point of having a different sub-genre
for every band/project/whatever..
mimus
2008-02-29 02:07:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference
between "IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know
thatRockis different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something
more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that
there's never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference"
given that "rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if
you really want to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a
very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he
takes the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I
have a pretty liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than
many of the used-to-be regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part
of the music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I
otherwise call this "metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus
for me).
That said, I'd lump "industrialmetal" and "industrialrock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of
"industrial with guitars."
Nothing against you pal, but "Coldwave", as used in the US of A, is a
stupid & meaningless label. Why?
"Coldwave" first came to be in UK, in the late 1970s, describing a
certain type of post-punk music relying heavily on synthesizers and a
cold, dettached mood (Industrial Music was once lumped under that
umbrella term). Then the French appropiated it; to them, it means
anything from Depeche Mode to the Sisters of Mercy.
15 years later some moron stole the word to create a fictitious
American industrial subgenre, supposedly separate from what Ministry
and Nine Inch Nails where doing circa 1992. Now, really: what's the big
fucking difference, style-wise, between Chemlab and Ministry? It's just
a marketing ploy, people, that's all.
Let me repeat: I hold nothing against you, its just that the "Coldwave"
term is an abomination.
seems like it's getting to the point of having a different sub-genre for
every band/project/whatever..
<sniff>

A genre squabble.

Next year: "Is it industrial, or is it goth?"
--
Let there be throbbing.
Girl <last name>
2008-02-29 09:27:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference
between "IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know
thatRockis different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something
more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that
there's never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference"
given that "rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if
you really want to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a
very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he
takes the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I
have a pretty liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than
many of the used-to-be regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part
of the music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I
otherwise call this "metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus
for me).
That said, I'd lump "industrialmetal" and "industrialrock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of
"industrial with guitars."
Nothing against you pal, but "Coldwave", as used in the US of A, is a
stupid & meaningless label. Why?
"Coldwave" first came to be in UK, in the late 1970s, describing a
certain type of post-punk music relying heavily on synthesizers and a
cold, dettached mood (Industrial Music was once lumped under that
umbrella term). Then the French appropiated it; to them, it means
anything from Depeche Mode to the Sisters of Mercy.
15 years later some moron stole the word to create a fictitious
American industrial subgenre, supposedly separate from what Ministry
and Nine Inch Nails where doing circa 1992. Now, really: what's the big
fucking difference, style-wise, between Chemlab and Ministry? It's just
a marketing ploy, people, that's all.
Let me repeat: I hold nothing against you, its just that the "Coldwave"
term is an abomination.
seems like it's getting to the point of having a different sub-genre for
every band/project/whatever..
<sniff>
A genre squabble.
Next year: "Is it industrial, or is it goth?"
But...


WHAT IS INDUSTRIAL?and WHAT IS GOTH?

Girl.
mimus
2008-02-29 12:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Girl <last name>
Post by mimus
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Post by Slipface
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference
between "IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know
thatRockis different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something
more specific.
Despite the fact that you're an asshat, I'll also point out that
there's never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference"
given that "rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms. Hell, if
you really want to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't a
very well defined term.
I get into arguments all of the time with a friend of mine as he
takes the view that it is what pop culture tells him it is (and I
have a pretty liberal view of the term 'industrial', moreso than
many of the used-to-be regulars here!).
The only thing you can do is say "if I stripped out whatever part
of the music is earning it the "industrial" moniker, would I
otherwise call this "metal" or "rock"?"
Genres are so fractionated and blurred, I've pretty much swung toward
lumping, myself (categorizing my music in iTunes was a real impetus
for me).
That said, I'd lump "industrialmetal" and "industrialrock" into
Coldwave. I think that's a relatively well-accepted term (or was at
one time) and captured pretty much that entire spectrum of
"industrial with guitars."
Nothing against you pal, but "Coldwave", as used in the US of A, is a
stupid & meaningless label. Why?
"Coldwave" first came to be in UK, in the late 1970s, describing a
certain type of post-punk music relying heavily on synthesizers and a
cold, dettached mood (Industrial Music was once lumped under that
umbrella term). Then the French appropiated it; to them, it means
anything from Depeche Mode to the Sisters of Mercy.
15 years later some moron stole the word to create a fictitious
American industrial subgenre, supposedly separate from what Ministry
and Nine Inch Nails where doing circa 1992. Now, really: what's the big
fucking difference, style-wise, between Chemlab and Ministry? It's just
a marketing ploy, people, that's all.
Let me repeat: I hold nothing against you, its just that the "Coldwave"
term is an abomination.
seems like it's getting to the point of having a different sub-genre for
every band/project/whatever..
<sniff>
A genre squabble.
Next year: "Is it industrial, or is it goth?"
But...
WHAT IS INDUSTRIAL?and WHAT IS GOTH?
Dead? _ex_-genres? gone to be one with prog-rock?
--
Let there be a moment of respectful quiet throbbing.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-29 21:14:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by mimus
Next year: "Is it industrial, or is it goth?"
More important: Can it blend?
d***@yahoo.com.br
2008-02-28 16:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
Do you guys think that there's verifiable, objetive difference between
"IndustrialRock" and "IndustrialMetal"? Yes, I know thatRockis
different fromMetal, but I'm looking for something more specific.
I'll also point out that there's
never going to be a "verifiable, objetive [sic] difference" given that
"rock" and "metal" are pretty shifty terms.  Hell, if you really want
to get ot the point "industrial" itself isn't  a very well defined term.
Yes, there is.

I've been a musician for 17 years - a guitar-player, to be exact - and
I can readily identify these differences between Industrial Rock and
Industrial Metal. Looking at the technical aspects of performance,
there are things present in Metal genre - double bass drumming; fast,
palm-muted tremolo guitar picking; extensive use of power-chords;
quick (150 BPM+) tempos; gruff vocals - that you won't find in
"traditional" Rock music, or in Industrial Rock for that matter.

Of course, non-musicians would be hardpressed to tell these apart -
Industrial Music is a non-musicians genre, after all...
Post by j***@hehxduhmp.org
Despite the fact that you're an asshat
Fuck you too.
j***@hehxduhmp.org
2008-02-29 21:15:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by d***@yahoo.com.br
I've been a musician for 17 years - a guitar-player, to be exact - and
I can readily identify these differences between Industrial Rock and
So in other words, you've yet to play industrial music.
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